Valencia Sailing talks to Ben Hall (part II)

We publish today the second part of the very interesting discussion we had last Wednesday with Ben Hall, Vice President of Hall Spars. In this part, our conversation focused on a more detailed analysis of mast making in the America's Cup but also the other major racing classes. You can read the first part of the interview here.

Valencia Sailing: What is the most important evolution in America's Cup masts between the previous edition and this one?
Ben Hall: First of all, the rules have changed. The biggest difference obviously is the modulus of the material. From the beginning it was always intermediate modulus carbon fiber, from 1992 when the rule started through 2003. After that year, they increased it to a high modulus material, to put it in very simple terms. The America's Cup has limits in modulus you can go up to and I'm sure every team, whoever is buying their carbon fibers, try to reach the maximum. Another important change in the rules was the drop in the minimum weight of the mast. There have also been other changes such as allowing the use of PBO (high-strength polymer fiber) or carbon rigging for the headstay and the jumpers. I think there has been a fair amount of development in that field.

Valencia Sailing: If I understand well, the change was mainly in materials, not design.
Ben Hall: Not exactly, the design also changed as a result of these modifications. Another change was that they allowed the autoclave pressure to increase from 3 atmospheres to 5 atmospheres.

Valencia Sailing: Is this factor very important?
Ben Hall: We think it is. The every day pressure we use is usually 6 to 7 atmospheres. All our masts for J boats or even production masts for Bénétau boats are built at 6 atmospheres. In comparison America's Cup yachts are made at 5 atmospheres. I don't know why they kept that rule. It doesn't make any sense. Already in 1992 we had the ability to make higher pressure.

Valencia Sailing: Higher pressure is then translated into higher resistance?
Ben Hall: More compaction of the material. It is the routine pressure the aerospace industry uses, not 3 or 5 atmospheres. I believe this is due because most of our competitors didn't have the equipment to reach these pressures when the rule was created.

Valencia Sailing: How do you then compare the America's Cup to the other major racing classes? Are you involved in the Volvo Ocean Race, the TP52 or GP42?
Valencia Sailing: Absolutely, we are involved in all of them. In the VOR we did the masts for Paul Cayard's “Pirates of the Caribbean”. We are also going to build the masts of one of the teams of the 2008 campaign but I can't tell you which. Of course, as you know, we have a very strong involvement in the TP52 class. For example, in last year's Copa del Rey, out of the 21 boats there, 17 were ours. We obviously have competition there as well, but this year we are doing 5 very interesting new projects. We are doing the new Pisco Sour, Caixa Galicia, the new CAM as well as the new Patches. We also made a new 2007-version mast for Bambakou, but I don't know whether they are going to race this year.

Don't forget that we made the first mast ever for a TP52 boat, Bruce Nelson's first boat called Yassou. I actually had to interview him about the TP52 rule. It's funny because there wasn't a rule concerning the weight and center of gravity of a TP52 mast. Actually, they weighed Yassou's mast and set that measurement as the rule. We then did Esmeralda and most of the Farr-designed TP52 boats. We have an interesting and long history with the TP52's. We are now in our fifth generation of special tools for TP52 mast production.

Row of Hall-built TP52 masts in the 2006 Trofeo Balearia. Ibiza, 19 September 2006. Photo copyright Pierre Orphanidis / Valencia Sailing

Valencia Sailing: If I'm not mistaken your TP52 masts have two spreaders while other designs have three.
Ben Hall: Yes, you are correct. We are making one mast with three spreaders this year because the team wanted it. Southern Spars did the first three-spreader mast and the two teams they were involved with (Mean Machine/Mutua Madrileña and Warpath) had high budgets and ended up winning. As a result, everybody thought the three-spreader rig was better. We have carried out extensive research and we think you can achieve the same results with two or three spreaders. Interestingly enough, the TP52 class doesn't limit the modulus of the carbon fiber. As a result, the material we are using in a lot of the TP52 masts is the next step above the America's Cup.

Valencia Sailing: So, we are not sitting here in front of the highest sailing technology!!
Ben Hall: As far as brainpower is concerned, it is the peak of technology. But as far as the allowable material and the way we process it is concerned, we do higher process for production boats.

Valencia Sailing: Does the manufacturing process differ from one class to another?
Ben Hall: For most of the masts we do, the America's Cup is different. I would say that the way we do our VOR, TP52 or even GP42 masts is inherently better than the way we build an America's Cup mast. That's all I can say.

Valencia Sailing: Does all this high-end technology trickle down to cruising boats?
Ben Hall: If you look over the years, I would say absolutely yes. As far as carbon fiber technology is concerned there are always things you learn from the America's Cup, especially related to the manufacturing process and tooling or simply innovative and interesting new ways of making things. When rules allow advances, they always take place. Take for example the ropes, Gottifredi Maffioli is using Dyneema, PBO and all the future fibers. I wouldn't say the technology is trickling down, it is dropping down, the transfer is immediate. As far as design is concerned, it certainly trickles there, but if you talk to any America's Cup designer, they will assure you that what they design outside the America's Cup is more advanced. They are locked in a certain rule and their hands are tied. As a result, most of the advances take place outside the rules.

ITA-99 of Mascalzone Latino Capitalia Team being towed out of Port America's Cup with her Hall-built mast. Valencia, 15 March 2007. Photo copyright Pierre Orphanidis / Valencia Sailing

Valencia Sailing: Would you be in favor of making the rules less stringent?
Ben Hall: I don't know what would be the best for this event. I think it's a good thing to have a stability in the rule. If it changes frequently then the high-budget teams would push out the less funded. The effort and time dedicated to the development of a new boat is so extensive that if they had to do it in every campaign that would be unbearable. If for example they decide to have a 90-foot canting keel boat for the next Cup, most of the smaller teams would simply disappear.

I hope a European team wins this Cup so that all the teams will have their boats, masts, infrastructure in place and get into the next one right away. If now the America's Cup leaves Europe it's a wild card on what will happen to the event. It's clear to me there is no other place in the world that has the sponsorship attention of the Mediterranean and it's incredible what you see even in the GP42's. In the US we can't get that, even regional banks such as Caixa Galicia or CAM fully funding TP52 or GP42 teams.

Valencia Sailing: My final question concerns the future. What areas is your R&D department working on?
Ben Hall: The refinements in the America's Cup class are getting increasingly smaller each year. We are now in the fifteenth year and the rule tightens. When there was a change in the materials for the masts, older masts were no longer competitive and as a result everybody had to change them. If there is a similar change in the rule there will be also be a considerable effort of R&D.

In general lines, research in mast making is concentrated on materials. In the future there will be some other material besides carbon fiber that might take over. We don't see it right now.

Valencia Sailing: Titanium?
Ben Hall: No, not titanium. There have been parts of masts made out of it but it will be some other fiber that might be developed. Right now you must have heard talking of carbon nanotubes. We are testing some nano carbon fiber right now with interesting results but that might only be a small step and other fibers might appear in the future. It will not necessarily be a carbon fiber but these developments don't usually take place in the marine industry. Most of the times they are first developed in the aerospace industry and then picked up by us.

Outside of the material field, there will probably be evolutionary rather than revolutionary changes in the types of rigs. We will see more rotating masts and we have been working hard for several years on a rotating mast that has no shrouds at all, like an aeroplane wing. It is an interesting concept and traditionalists don't accept it but it is a direction we might see in the future.

Victory Challenge's SWE-96 being hoisted inside Port America's Cup. Her mast was built by Hall Spars. Valencia, 12 March 2007. Photo copyright Pierre Orphanidis / Valencia Sailing