Sunday, May 24, 2009

Yet another letter from BMW Oracle to Alinghi

Related PDF files- Letter from GGYC to SNG, 23 May 2009

Vice Commodore Fred Meyer
Chairman, America’s Cup Commitee
Société Nautique de Genève

Dear Vice Commodore Meyer,

I write on behalf of our Club, and Messrs. Coutts and Ehman, in response to your letter of May 21, 2009.

Before and after we won in Court of Appeals, SNG has consistently maintained the position in its courts papers that the Deed prohibits SNG from selecting a Northern Hemisphere venue in February, the race date required by mandate of the Court of Appeals and the Aprile 7, 2009 judgment.

The decision last week did not, and could not, change the mandate of the Court of Appeal or the Judgment. Rather, that decision stated (quoted from the court transcript): “I’m just going to issue my decision at this point. At this point, in regard to Golden Gate Yacht Club’s application for contempt, I’m directing SNG to hold the race as pre order of the Court of Appeals.

We see no reason to appeal that decision. It is clear to us that you may select Valencia for the February 2010 match, or an otherwise Deed-compliant venue - which you have acknowledged time and again means only a venue in the Southern Hemisphere.

Of course, you could remove some of the uncertainty that you have created, and of which your letter complains, by announcing that you have selected Valencia, which we would support. That would be consistent with Ernesto Bertarelli’s announcement at the Center for Sports Business Management forum here in Valencia on March 2, 2009, i.e, that Valencia would be the venue for the 33rd America’s Cup regardless which way the Court of Appeal ruled.

If, however, it is your intention to propose a Northern Hemisphere location other than Valencia, we are willing to discuss with you the therms of an agreement to accomodate this as well. We would be willing to have those discussion immediately to help remove any remaining uncertainty caused by your unwillingness to comply with the Court’s clear mandate. Regardless, we will not permit your club to dictate to us the terms of the match or to reinterpret the meaning of the Deed and the Judgment.


Golden Gate Yacht Club
Marcus Young

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At 1:52 PM, Anonymous Matt said...

Very polite. Now we wait for the response.

At 2:18 PM, Anonymous uncletom said...

I think it is good to post here the exact quote from Justice Cahn for all of us to discuss:
"Ordered that the location of the match shall be in Valencia, Spain or any location selected by SNG, provided SNG notifies GGYC in writing not less than six months in advance of the date set forth for the first challenge match race of the location it has selected for the challenge match race, and it is further ordered that GGYC and SNG may engage in a mutual consent process and make any arrangements satisfactory to both as to the dates, courses, number of trials, rules and sailing regulations and any other conditions on the challenge match race in accordance with the deed of gift."

I invite everyone to discus about it in a friendly way (unfortunately not so common here lately).

Here is my personal opinion:
Cahn starts his sentence saying where the venue can be, then he explains the way it must be communicated to the COR, and then he talks about the dates, courses, trials and rules, and in my humble opinion, it's in that moment and not before, when he declares that those must be "in accordance with the deed of gift".

Therefore, I honestly think that the Court very precisely let SNG take the DoG Match to "Valencia, Spain or any location selected by SNG".

Do you agree?
Do you have a different interpretation?

At 4:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Uncletom:
Thanks for posting Justice Cahn's quote.
That's the best way to stop this new masquerade from BOR.

I couldn't agree more with you.
BOR is the only one here trying to re-write the Court decision in their own benefit.

I guess they are pissed after the last Court hearing, where they couldn't get the judge rule against SNG for contempt but, even worst, she forced them to show up with a cat that is exactly 90x90, otherwise they'll be disqualified.

At 6:05 PM, Anonymous Matt said...

Imagine this "It is ordered that you shall eat in a restaurant in Valencia, Spain, or any other restaurant selected by SNG...but it is further ordered that you must eat soup, salad, meat, no desert ,coffee "

I'd anticipate that I'm likely to be eating anywhere in the world, but I know what has to be on the menu 'cos that's what I've been told I'm getting. OK, deal. Understood. OK, surprise me. Now let's go eat.

At 6:33 PM, Anonymous Moritz said...

In my opinion, the Court is clearly saying that their decision (to have a DoG match in 10 months) rules over any restriction that could be in the Deed that could block it from happening in that time (like postponing it to May).

In other words: SNG can choose wherever they want as long as it happens in Feb 2010. No more excuses. No more delays. That's the Court order.

He also set clear that the race rules, race days and type of courses has to be set according to the Deed, with out exception.

In other words, I agree with UncleTom... but I felt like writing my own theory I guess.

At 7:28 PM, Anonymous Brian said...

moritz, uncletom, matt...when you put it all together, you're spot on. some intelligencia contributing for a change.

At 7:34 PM, Anonymous Tampico said...


I agree with you that the important word in the long sentence of Justice Cahn is "other".
Which means that the match shall be in Valencia or any location selected by SNG (which is in contradiction with the DoG), but the "other" conditions have to be as per the DoG.

At 8:12 PM, Anonymous WetHog said...

I as well feel Alinghi is free to seak out a venue where ever they choose. But it also seems clear, by the fact BMWO is sighting quotes from Alinghi in the past where they state nothing can happen in the NH before May, that we will be back in court shortly. Bummer.

At 8:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guys besides reading the order you need to read what was said on the floor in the court in the transcript & in the court docs.

By doing some additional reading you will understand the order & why Valencia is in the order for the only NH location. Only then you will understand it's Valencia only in the NH. If not, go SH young man.

If SNG isn't playing the PR, it will go back to court or if SNG finally agrees to a mediator it will be ironed out there.

Hint - it's has something to do about Mutual Consent & the venue not being used as a advantage beyond the Defender's home water. Also, there is something in the history on moving from your home waters.

At 10:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow was that the wethog sounding almost impartial???maybe you dont need a break after all. well done .

At 2:21 AM, Anonymous WetHog Imposter said...

Somebody is playing WetHog on this board, and is destroying me hard earned reputation as the No. 1 SNG basher without logic!

I will not stand for that, and I kindly ask Pierre and the whole Valencia Sailing community to support my shortly following legal actions. I will sue "Anonymous" for using my name and for impersonating me in public. I demand restitution (in the Northern Hemisphere), and I will not allow anybody but the guilty party to apologize in person (there will be no eliminations for that!).

I am sick and tired of this continuous "imposturing" on these here boards.

Kindly and respectfully, the one and only, the true WetHoggiieee

At 9:10 AM, Anonymous platu25 said...

That was funny, but what about going back to the topic?

I'm concerned that even though the whole community understands that Justice Cahn's order allows SNG to choose any location they want, BOR insists on threatening to negotiate or take them back to court.

It sounds to me like a very desperate move to know where the venue is (even before the 6 months that the Deed gives them) so they can make the necessary adjustments to USA (aka "the renewed BOR90") and provide the CHR after that.

@Anonymous who wrote:
"Guys besides reading the order you need to read what was said on the floor in the court in the transcript & in the court docs."

I advise you to post the precise quotes that you think support your point, otherwise it sounds very weak.

Many things have been said over this long legal battle by both parties, but only the Court decision is the law.

And that one was very clear: "Ordered that the location of the match shall be in Valencia, Spain or any location selected by SNG, provided SNG notifies GGYC in writing not less than six months in advance..."

At 11:07 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Surely Valencia Sailing has some interest in Sailing in Valencia ? I would have thought this site would be supporting "Valencia Sailing" ?? or is that too simplistic ?

At 12:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Come on, let's be serious please.
This is one of the very few professional sailing blogs that is objective.

Don't take it against Pierre.
Take it against Justice Cahn.
He was the one that let SNG to take it wherever they want.

At 4:51 PM, Anonymous WetHog said...

Well it might be obvious that I support BMWO in this court bullshit, I am a free thinking individual and I am not a complete idiot. Both sides seem to be reaching in regards to their arguments. Most notably:

Alinghi - Bitching for a CHR from BMWO when BMWO wasn't even the COR. How is that possible? Especially when Alinghi said over and over that they cannot entertain BMWO's challenge while CNEV is the legit COR. And Alinghi threatening to sue Coutts and Ehman for libel in regards to their comments screwing up Alinghi's negotiations with perspective venues. And the introduction of the Green +39 challenge. If anyone on here thinks the Green +39 guys stand on their own and have no assistance from Alinghi, well you haven't been paying attention.

BMWO - Stating that Alinghi must choose Valencia for February 2010 or a southern hemisphere venue. I didn't read that in Cahn's order and not sure how BMWO can win on that point. Also from BMWO, stating that Alinghi is must not show up in a boat longer than 90ft and with more than one mast because Alinghi is limited to the dimensions posted in BMWO's initial challenge. Well history shows, '88 Coma off Point Loma, that the Defender can show up in what it wants as long as it follows the extreme limits in the DoG. If BMWO's current argument had any merit then how was it legal for SDYC to show up in a Cat?

Passions get the better of me from time to time and I will not apologize. This current AC saga has nothing to do with Nationality, and when America gets run through the mud I get heated and am compelled to respond. But I would rather debate the points that matter and I am not afraid to call out my beloved BMWO when its needed. In the end I just want to follow some fucking AC racing on the water. This court bullshit has gotten old and no one, NO ONE, can pin that on one side over the other at this point. Both BMWO and Alinghi are responsible.

At 6:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wethog - got to disagree w/ you on this one - "Well history shows, '88 Coma off Point Loma, that the Defender can show up in what it wants as long as it follows the extreme limits in the DoG."

The cat was in the 90x90 box w/ 1 mast. It's the same box that Alinghi has to fit in.

Regardless of the design of the boat, ie tri, cat or mono it needs to fit in the same box per the Deed as in the Challenger's NoC.

Yep, the PR BS is pretty well even but the SNG & their poodel CVG threating TE & RC plus the CVG challenge is going over the top. Also going after Antoine. It all fits in the same vain as CNEV where all this started.

At 12:06 AM, Anonymous WetHog said...

Well we can agree to disagree on what the Defender can show up in. In the end I am no Sailor, just a loyal fan of the AC, so commenting on what boats are allowed and what isn't is a strong area of my expertise.

As for who started what, sure Alinghi started it all with the bullshit CNEV, but at this point both sides cannot claim clean hands. And both could of ended all of this long ago if both sides zipped their flies just once and talked things over like adults.


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